Fractal Wrongness

I have a paper to write, and the creative juices aren't flowing, so i figure a good rant might get me back on track. This happened a few days ago, and I'm still seething about it quite a bit. I don't think this will come out quite as thought-out as a Jeremy entry, but I'll give it a stab.

I was called stupid for believing that the fact of evolution is a thing.

I never thought I'd see the day, but apparently these things do actually happen. I always thought of the blissfully ignorant theist was somehow detached from my world. Still there but, somehow not a part of my daily life.

Like Canada...

But this guy was a piece of work. My brother moves boxes at a local liquor store and called me at the end of his shift. He had gotten into a discussion with a man I simply had to meet to believe. After an hour and a half of heated debate, the man had
-Called me stupid for believing in evolution
-said that homosexuals have a mental disorder
-condescended on me for not having read the entire bible
-contradicted himself more times than I can count.

This man suffers from an illness that's been circling around the internet. It's called "Fractal Wrongness" It is something that happens when someone's world view is so wrong, you can't begin to tackle any point of their argument, because the wrongness is a never ending circle of ignorance fueled bullshit. This man was so sure of himself that he dismissed me on simply "not knowing shit", the smug little look on his face just screaming "I don't have to provide a compelling argument because I know I'm right." This guy was so set in his hateful bigotry, I don't think he heard a word I said. All of my arguments bounced off his little force-field, and no matter how much I spoke of homosexual teen suicide, or text book evidence of evolution, or how taking rights away from people is largely considered a bad thing, none of it mattered in the slightest.

This is what gets to me. I truly believe that in cases like these, Religion can be a virus. It takes root in someone's brain and eats away at what is right and wrong. These things, these VERY morally obvious things, are somehow damaged on such a dangerous level, the person's sense of morals gets twisted. They think their entitled to have things their way, and if a different way makes them uncomfortable, they shouldn't have to be exposed to it. What scares me is that these people aren't evil, and they aren't stupid. Yet somehow they have these evil opinions instilled in them. This man truly doesn't care that opinions like his are the reason that teens are killing themselves. This guilt bating and hate mongering has to stop.

Of course, I don't speak of all religious people. I know many people that don't think that gay people are mentally ill, and believe that evolution is responsible for diversity on this planet, but there are those that have sat in a pew and been spoon-fed their worldview by a priest or pastor, and I think that honestly, closed mindedness is killing this country.

This man decided he would quiz me with trivial facts, and when I didn't know them, he definitely felt justified in his, "your young and you don't know shit" argument. I know from speaking to this man that his "intensive research" on evolution involved a night looking at creationists attempts at debunking evolution. Googeling "Why Evolution is wrong" and researching it are two different fucking things. There where so many logical fallacies that I don't think I could even name them all.

The worst part of this is, this man simply has a fundamentally damaged moral compass. He is wrong on so many levels, and yet,

He is still more moral than the monster depicted in his holy book

I'm Zach, and thanks for reading. (I'm just kidding, we have no readers! XD)

Passover

Just a short one tonight but I should post in the spirit of things.

I went to a Jewish passover with my girlfriend Monday. The most prominent thing I noticed is that the focus, at least for the one I was invited to, was more on upholding Jewish culture and understanding Jewish society than being in touch with God. At the very most extreme it could be said that there was a slightly agnostic undertone, or at least a very spiritually open one. I was very relieved to feel welcome for once.

And one of the other things I'd like to applaud the Jewish religion for: they don't work to convert. The closest the Jewish religion gets to converting is raising awareness of Jewish culture and heritage, which is important outside of any religion, right? This is a religion that I think get's their fundamentals right without a dogmatic overtone. I approve.

Now, I have no desire to begin following Jewish religion and I don't think their god or afterlife exist either. But as I've said before, atheism for me is partly about living because it's kindof a one-shot. As far as life goes I think they're on the right track by focusing on what religion fundamentally revolves around which is customs and philosophy.

This is Jeremy the Atheist saying that while I think the Jewish religion, like any other that has a belief or afterlife system is misguided the customs are worth preserving and cherishing.

-Sims

The Acceptance of Atheists

Clearly this is something I'm writing with my own agenda as an atheist but as I said in my last post I still often feel scrutinized for my thoughts, even though I consider myself to be in a relatively open minded environment.

To theists out there, both family and friends and people I've never even met I want you to know that I don't hate you I just think you're wrong. I'm going to continue to speak my thoughts on this because in a way if I stopped then it'd be like I believed in something I didn't for not speaking up about it. As an atheist I "believe" in my life. I would be doing my own life wrong by not being honest with myself and honest with my friends and likewise to any other theist they would do themselves wrong to keep their thoughts and practices secret as well. Throughout history I'm sure we can point out many scenarios where this was evident, and even a time when Christianity was dealing with the same turmoil.

Is there any sort of agreement or compromise or form of acceptance that we cohesively as a human race can come to?

Agree to disagree?

I don't think I'll see a resolve any time soon.

To look at it one way the expanding core of something like Christianity, which instills in its believers the wrath of hell for lack of belief (which frankly should make everyone's bullshit/megalomaniac detector go off) says to the believers that anyone who doesn't follow this belief will attend endless punishment. Now, what if in the afterlife we all become inverted? If we were good people today then after death we would be murderers. It sounds bizarre but it has just as much validity and my point is the death phobia that everybody alive has, which is perfectly natural and in fact one great way of knowing for sure you are alive is something so thoroughly molested by religion that the concept "maybe there is no afterlife and the kicks we get here are all there is" seems ludicrous and uncomfortable because it's painful to be reminded of our mortality after such a deep marination in the afterlife dream.

In short: It may sound backwards but I think you're doing more harm than not by wanting to believe in something. I know it's comforting but you, the theist reader, are allowing yourself to be exploited and dehumanized.

In the god and mortal paradigm theoretically we're slaves because God wants us to be. We're rewarded and punished based on an archaic system similarly used by Pavlov with God as judge. This is acceptable to the human race because we're given a small comfort: it lasts forever

L.O.V.E.

I love people even if I think they're wrong.

I love people even if they hate me for thinking they're wrong.

-Sims

Ray Comfort PWNAGE, The Athiest Experience and their win against ignorance.

First off, Jeremy, Welcome to the 2 person writing team! Team Thought Quake. Sounds official. That's cute... Anyway, good to have you on board.

This is great, because it gives me a chance to talk about a show I love, while also ranting about an apologist I utterly can't stand.

Last week the show, The Atheist Experience had a very special guest. The name is linked. For the episode I'm about about to talk about, it's Here. Seriously, check them out. The hosts of the show are always making very valid arguments. Sure, debating with an angry theist via the telephone is like chipping away at a brick wall with a toothpick, but they do it anyway, and their pretty damn good at it too. Anyway, the special guest was famous apologist and all around thickheaded intellectual train wreck, Ray Comfort.

Or maybe they were talking to the chimp, I couldn't tell you. If you watch one episode of their show, make it this one.

The hosts where patient, but only as patient as one can be when someone says “I don't believe in evolution because it requires too much faith.” He said that, and I wish I could make it up. When they challenged him on the faith required to be a christian, he said he didn't have faith, he knew that god existed, and he knows god. Matt Dillahunty, the show's main host, very patiently worked with him to deconstruct this, and hopefully get Ray to admit that while his faith is strong due to personal experience, that experience is not a valid reason for others to believe, since it is simply unable to be shared.

Unfortunately, Ray had constructed a safe little corner for himself where he couldn't lose. He said all they have to do is go to church, have their sins absolved and they too would experience knowledge of god. Basically, if you didn't have a personal experience, it was because you didn't want it bad enough. You didn't believe hard enough, you where never a true Scottsman-er... Christian... (Fallacy humor, *Sigh) and you should feel bad. This however neglects Ray's above statement. Christianity doesn't require as much faith as science, except for the faith requiring you to utterly change your lifestyle and absolve your sins. Saying faith is not required and then explaining exactly how it is, is pure and utter intellectual dishonesty. Ray seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of faith. He doesn't see the difference between believing a thousands-of-years-old-mistranslated-bronze-age script, and believing a cross-referenced science journal published in the last five years.

I promised myself I wouldn't get into Evolution due to this post reaching the “TLDR” length, but I have to. This is an area in which Ray is so patently wrong, you'd think he be TROLLIN. After he said he didn't believe in evolution, they got him to admit that he believes in modern medicine. THERE! DONE DEAL, RIGHT? Nope, not for Ray. Apparently Ray has the unbelievable ability to have his evolution based flu-shot, AND deny its existence. Who knew? The rest of the conversation went like this.

Ray: WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE! GRRBLGRRBLGRRRBL

Show: Here's the evidence.

Ray: WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE!?!?!?

Show: Here's the evidence.

Ray: THAT'S NOT EVIDENCE!!

Show: yes it is, Ray.

Ray: YOUR MOTHER!

Okay, maybe not that last part, but you get the idea. It was also a brick wall to say that everything is a transitional form. Ray wouldn't have it. He won't rest until he has his crocaduck. Want a BANANA Ray? Oh, bad dig but I had to take it. In short, while Ray's mind refuses to evolve to a state of openness, his mouth sure as hell hasn't.

~Zach

Introduction

Let me begin by introducing myself. My name is Jeremy Sims and I've been recruited as Zach's Newest addition to the Thought Quake team, which currently consists of Zach and myself.

I promise to offend lonely old ladies inadvertently and brandish my wits before my peers.

I grew up in Texas, exposed to the united Methodist Church as a child and followed its teachings during my younger years. Later on I began wondering about the legitimacy of the mythology of the bible when I fully read through it. The bible can be interpreted in a million different ways and because of it's vagueness it would be logical to say that the only thing that I believe about it is the unwavering uncertainty of the bible that is often reflected by its followers. As a result of vagueness there are millions of different factions who don't even agree with each other. The Bible simply exists, as Marx called it, to be an opiate for the masses like any other religion and preachers use the Bible as a tool of exploitation. Nothing on this world has caused more strife, more suffering, more violence, and more pain than the Bible.

Now, preaching is as easy as blogging but you don't see door to door atheists on your front step because the "church of atheism" doesn't care about conversion, just epistemic conversation. This is not meant to be anything more than an outlet in a world where, while many people don't methodically practice the method, I still often feel scrutinized for many of my thoughts on religion.

For the old ladies out there, I'm visualizing you going "That's SO WRONG there are so few truly religious people today! We're a dying breed!" while sipping a teacup full of valium in underpants flirting with your armpits. Not true. There are more than 9,000,000 regular united methodists in America alone, and even more in Europe when it was founded. And I'm only showing one division of christianity. Even though people don't go to church regularly there are still many who consider themselves religious. The catholic church even counts anyone who doesn't outright abhor them. I'M even considered a part of the united methodists larger statistic because I was baptized.

While old people are in fact dying sooner than others, you can rest easy gentlemen. Thought Quake has a whopping 2 regulars and I doubt you'll see us picketing a church anytime soon.

I remember a time when I had a piece of paper with a coloring book style image of Jesus on it and I tried to make him look as badass as possible so I made him breathe fire, shoot lazer beams, have big bat wings, a pointed tail and horns. Put that in your communion wine and drink it.

For a time I classified myself as an agnostic but really that just means closeted atheist. Partly the reason that I thought this way was because I've read so many different religious mythologies. The Bible is a great one to take with the same bag of salt that comes with anything else dogmatic and full of hype and I enjoy reading it occasionally. The Asatru is another beautiful one, as well as Greek Mythology (which really gets you questioning whether or not the gods are worth so much trust) The Tao Te Ching was intended as a harmonization of living an enlightened state of being and over the years Lao Tzu has been declared a reborn god and was tied in to Buddhist religion. And Buddhism is like the eastern version of Christianity but different in mythology and teaching. So getting to the point of these, I found I disagreed with something fundamentally essential to each one, and really none of them can be taken seriously past fiction because they're marinated in creative license. So I finally came to this conclusion: There's this HUGE VAST thing that's so big it's beyond our ability to comprehend and made of things so small there's another whole universe in the moon of my pinky. It's so complex and sophisticated and for a brief time we all get to be a part of it and that's it, that's all we get and there's no reason why. I don't know about you but it makes me want to have a field day and do crazy fun stuff like blog about atheism all night.

So what I plan on writing about is mostly going to be either the Bible as fiction, raising awareness of certain sections of Christianity that exude a Froidian diagnosis of the crazies, and ranting about how atheism and nihilism are two very separate things. More to be added to my objectives as they come to me.

I'll leave you on one of my favorite T.S. Eliot poems.

THE HIPPOPOTAMUS

by: T.S. Eliot (1888-1965)

HE broad-backed hippopotamus

Rests on his belly in the mud;

Although he seems so firm to us

He is merely flesh and blood.







Flesh-and-blood is weak and frail,

Susceptible to nervous shock;

While the True Church can never fail

For it is based upon a rock.







The hippo's feeble steps may err

In compassing material ends,

While the True Church need never stir

To gather in its dividends.







The 'potamus can never reach

The mango on the mango-tree;

But fruits of pomegranate and peach

Refresh the Church from over sea.







At mating time the hippo's voice

Betrays inflexions hoarse and odd,

But every week we hear rejoice

The Church, at being one with God.







The hippopotamus's day

Is passed in sleep; at night he hunts;

God works in a mysterious way--

The Church can sleep and feed at once.







I saw the 'potamus take wing

Ascending from the damp savannas,

And quiring angels round him sing

The praise of God, in loud hosannas.







Blood of the Lamb shall wash him clean

And him shall heavenly arms enfold,

Among the saints he shall be seen

Performing on a harp of gold.







He shall be washed as white as snow,

By all the martyr'd virgins kist,

While the True Church remains below

Wrapt in the old miasmal mist.